Where will Meta, Apple, and Google be three years from now? It's starting to look like they might all be very different. Nilay, David, and The Verge's Richard Lawler start the show with Eddy Cue's testimony in the Google search trial, in which Cue argued that AI is taking over — and that Google should be allowed to keep paying Apple gobs of money. The hosts also chat about the latest in the Meta trials, and how the recent Apple ruling is already changing the App Store. Then, there are some gadgets to talk about: the panopticon-slash-killer-app coming for Meta's smart glasses, the new Surface Pro and Surface Laptop, and a lot of new iPhones. In the lightning round, we do another round of Brendan Carr is a Dummy, then talk about some new Netflix designs and the latest in our worldwide hunt for party speakers. Further reading: Eddy Cue is fighting to save Apple’s $20 billion paycheck from Google Apple’s Eddy Cue: ‘You may not need an iPhone 10 years from now’ Google searches are falling in Safari for the first time ever — probably because of AI Google's statement about Search traffic Apple is looking at adding Perplexity and other AI search engines to Safari Amazon now has a ‘Get book’ button in its iOS Kindle app Epic will use an EU account to bring Fortnite back to the US App Store Patreon’s iOS update allows creators to bypass in-app purchases Apple is trying to halt the App Store ruling. Apple files appeal to wrest back control of its App Store A new bill would force Apple to allow third-party app storesDOJ’s proposed Google changes would ‘deeply undermine user trust,’ search chief says Firefox could be doomed without Google search deal, says executive DOJ asks court to split up Google’s ad tech empire Threads was originally going to live inside the Instagram app | The Verge Instagram doesn’t want to be a ‘lean-back experience.’ | The Verge ‘TikTok is probably the fiercest competition that we have faced.’ | The Verge Instagram has spent up to $700 million in a year to lure creators. Mosseri calls the first version of Reels his ‘biggest mistake.’ | The Verge Meta’s new AI glasses could have a ‘super-sensing’ mode with facial recognition Apple is planning smart glasses with and without AR Apple ‘iPhone Air’ rumor suggests a bigger screen coming in 2027 Apple may stagger next year’s iPhones to make way for a foldable Microsoft’s smaller Surface Pro has a 12-inch display and starts at $799 Microsoft shrinks its Surface Laptop down to 13 inches, priced at $899 Microsoft’s new Surface devices ditch magnetic charging port for USB-C How Microsoft shrunk its Surface devices Policing News, Policing DEI: The FCC’s Shifting Priorities Erode Its Credibility OpenAI abandons plan to become a for-profit company Netflix is getting a big TV revamp Netflix will try a TikTok-like feed on its mobile app I put four robot lawnmowers through a brutal backyard battle Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Verge’s Victoria Song joins the show to talk about a new genre of gadget, which both she and David have been testing a lot: the AI-powered, always-on voice recorder. Vee shares what she’s learned from devices like Bee, and why it’s going to be so hard for AI to figure out what really matters in our lives. After that, The Verge’s Nathan Edwards and keyboard maker Ryan Norbauer tell the story of the Seneca, a $3,600 keyboard that Norbauer built to his own incredibly exacting specifications. They tell David about what it really takes to make a great keyboard, and why making one is worth the effort. Finally, in the lightning round (call 866-VERGE11 or email vergecast@theverge.com!), we answer a couple of questions about the future of Chrome. Further reading: Bee review: I outsourced my memory to AI and all I got was fanfiction The Plaude NotePin is a great AI voice recorder, and it’s totally doomed Friend: a new digital companion for the AI age The Norbauer Seneca The $3,600 keyboard that’s optimized for joy. Why are companies lining up to buy Chrome? Sundar Pichai says the DOJ’s antitrust plan could kill Google Search Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Everywhere you look, antitrust fights have the potential to reshape the tech industry. Nilay, David, and The Verge's Jake Kastrenakes start by digging into the latest ruling in the Apple / Epic trial, in which a furious judge rips open the App Store in a way Apple likely never saw coming. The way we pay for apps is about to change, and fast. After that, it's time for an update on the Google and Meta trials, as Google tries to preserve its search empire and Meta tries to make the case that basically every company on the web is its vicious competitor. Finally, in the lightning round, it's time for another installment of Brendan Carr is a Dummy, plus some notes on this week's Worldcoin launch and the strange new Meta AI app. Also: party speakers. Always party speakers. Further reading: A judge just blew up Apple’s control of the App Store ‘Cook chose poorly’: how Apple blew up its control over the App Store The future of the App Store depends on the difference between a ‘button’ and an ‘external link’ Apple must allow other forms of in-app purchase, rules judge in Epic v. Apple Apple exec ‘outright lied’ during Epic trial Apple confirms it will appeal the App Store order. Epic says Fortnite is coming back to iOS in the US Sundar Pichai says the DOJ’s antitrust plan could kill Google Search Google confirms it’s close to getting Gemini support on iPhones The TikTok ban is back in court — in Meta’s antitrust trial TikTok’s head of operations takes the stand. Reels isn’t Instagram’s ‘core’ experience. TikTok doesn’t compete with Meta for ‘personal social networking.’ TikTok’s legal entanglements collide. The TikTok ban makes another cameo. TikTok’s friends tab is not exactly a hit. TikTok and Reels are ‘indistinguishable.’ Are YouTube and Instagram the top competitors for TikTok?  TikTok predicted Instagram would redesign its app to focus on Reels. Meta prepared for a ‘flood in traffic’ ahead of the TikTok ban. Facebook execs worried Google would buy WhatsApp and make it ‘a cross-platform iMessage.’ Facebook worried most about Google or Apple buying WhatsApp. Google had a ‘long shot’ chance of becoming competitive in social with WhatsApp. Facebook exec worried about losing the business to mobile messaging apps. ‘I was really worried that this could become the end.’ ‘This shit is getting scary.’  WhatsApp showed ‘absolutely no signs of morphing’ into a social app. Facebook floated starting from scratch on messaging. Facebook didn’t know how it would make money from WhatsApp. Facebook didn’t fear WhatsApp becoming a social competitor. Meta releases AI app to compete with ChatGPT Brendan Carr congratulates himself Brendan Carr’s FCC is an anti-consumer, rights-trampling harassment machine Brendan Carr’s Bizarro World FCC Sam Altman-backed Worldcoin cryptocurrency launches in the US Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sometimes you want more tech in your life — and sometimes you want a lot less. This episode is all about less. First, Tim Stevens joins the show to talk about his story about the Slate Truck, an ultra-minimal electric vehicle that has almost no features to speak of and yet still promises to reinvent the way we think about cars. After that, Casey Johnston tells us about her journey in managing her screen time. She has tips for how to get the most problematic apps of your phone, is a big proponent of a factory reset, and has seen first-hand what happens when you look at your devices just a little less. Finally, we answer a question on the Vergecast Hotline (call 866-VERGE11 or email vergecast@theverge.com!) about whether there's a MacBook Air equivalent in the Windows world. The answer surprised us, and it might surprise you too. Further reading: The $20,000 American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, and no touchscreen Is this the antidote to America’s truck bloat problem? From TechCrunch: Inside the EV startup secretly backed by Jeff Bezos Around the Next Bend on Substack Slate is the American truck scene's Ctrl+Alt+Del moment From She's a Beast: The DIY Dumbphone Method Casey's book: A Physical Education Framework Laptop 13 (2025) review: getting better with age Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Some weeks, it just feels like everything is up in the air all at the same time. Nilay and David are joined by The Verge’s Jake Kastrenakes to talk about all the unrest, starting with the ever-changing tariff rules that are making gadgets hard to price, hard to find, and hard to bet on going forward. (Maybe that’s why it seems everyone on Earth tried to pre-order a Switch 2 this week.) After that, the hosts catch up on the Meta and Google antitrust trials happening this week, and try to figure out who might be interested in the internet’s most popular browser. Finally, in the lightning round, we talk Brendan Carr (who is a dummy), the wood-backed Motorola Razr Ultra, and the 20th anniversary of YouTube. Further reading: Nintendo Switch 2 preorders were a total mess — at first Nintendo Switch 2 preorders are sold out everywhere GameStop’s Switch 2 preorders started poorly, too Auto industry tariffs are doing what now? 24 hours of White House confusion Did Tim Cook finagle a special tariff deal? Senator Warren wants to know The US hikes tariffs on solar products from Asia DHL halts international deliveries to US consumers worth over $800 Game Boy clone maker Anbernic suspends all shipments to US Ayn, like Anbernic, is pausing retro handheld shipments to the US. Perplexity wants to buy Chrome if Google has to sell it OpenAI tells judge it would buy Chrome from Google  Former DOJ antitrust chief says a Google break up will benefit the internet Instagram co-founder Kevin Systrom says Zuckerberg “saw us as a threat” Instagram launches its CapCut clone, Edits Threads adds more ads Former Google exec testifies about the company’s attempt to buy WhatsApp. Google’s antitrust trial begins with a fight over Chrome, money, and AI Google is paying Samsung an ‘enormous sum’ to preinstall Gemini Google reveals Gemini AI has 350 million monthly active users. Apple and Meta hit with the EU’s first DMA antitrust fines The EU isn’t happy with Apple’s tax on alternative app stores  Brendan Carr is a dummy From Puck: David Ellison’s Carr Trouble The Trump FCC’s Coercion Cartel Motorola’s new Razr Ultra brings the wood back panel back YouTube’s TV changes include a redesign and more multiview YouTube is everything and everything is YouTube 20 years ago, the first videos uploaded to YouTube were short and swee Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

 If you’re heading on vacation this summer, you’re going to want to listen to this. The Verge’s Gaby del Valle joins the show to explain how worried you need to be about your digital data when you cross borders, and what you can do to protect yourself. Even if you don’t think you have anything to hide, a little precaution goes a long way. After that, Puck’s Matt Belloni joins the show to explain why Apple, Amazon, Google, and other tech companies continue to pour money into the streaming business, when it seems so far removed from what those companies do well. (Spoiler alert: it’s fun to be friends with Ben Stiller.) Finally, we answer a hotline question about the Google Pixel’s ascent to “best Android phone for people who just want a phone.”  Oh, also: thanks to everyone who voted for us in the Webby Awards! We’ll know soon whether we won, but however it shakes out, we’re so grateful to everyone who voted for us. Further reading: Is it safe to travel to the United States with your phone right now? DHS’s airport panopticon is getting people deported and detained Trump says he wants to deport US citizens to El Salvador Matt Belloni at Puck The Town podcast From Puck: How Long Can the Apple TV+ Experiment Sputter On? - Puck Google Pixel 9A review: a midrange phone done right Google Pixel 9 review: the phone that Android needs Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We promise, this episode is only a little bit about header bidding. Nilay and David are joined by The Verge’s Alex Heath to talk about some big news in tech regulation: Google lost its ad-tech monopoly trial, which could reshape both Google and the internet altogether. And that’s not the only monopoly news! Meta’s trial also started this week, and Alex was there to see Mark Zuckerberg and others try to defend Instagram, WhatsApp, and the company as a whole. After all that, we talk about OpenAI’s plans to build a social network, and how this company seems to never run out of ambition. Finally, in the lightning round, it’s time for another round of Brendan Carr is a Dummy, and some news about viral cameras and the Switch 2. Which we’ll be yeeting into our homes as soon as possible Further reading: Google loses ad tech monopoly case FTC v. Meta live: the latest from the battle over Instagram and WhatsApp Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg defends Instagram purchase in antitrust trial Zuckerberg defends his empire during FTC antitrust trial Mark Zuckerberg suggested spinning off Instagram Mark Zuckerberg tells court that Meta made WhatsApp, Instagram better Mark Zuckerberg once suggested wiping all Facebook friends lists to boost usage Meta reportedly offered $1 billion to settle the FTC’s antitrust lawsuit. Zuckerberg defends his empire during FTC antitrust trial Google, Apple, and Snap aren’t happy about Meta’s poorly-redacted slides Meta’s antitrust trial slide redactions aren’t actually hiding anything OpenAI is building a social network OpenAI debuts its GPT-4.1 flagship AI model OpenAI might finally get better model names soon. OpenAI’s upgraded o3 model can use images when reasoning ChatGPT will now remember your old conversations OpenAI is reportedly considering a $3 billion deal to buy AI coding tool Windsurf. Netflix is testing a new OpenAI-powered search Brendan Carr on X The Media and Democracy Project on Bluesky Trump excludes smartphones, computers, chips from higher tariffs Smartphone tariffs are coming back in ‘a month or two,’ says Trump admin TSMC is unfazed by tariffs. Microsoft’s Phil Spencer: “I want to support Switch 2.” In pursuit of a viral, five-year-old compact camera Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's time, once again, to see what's what in the streaming wars. For the third year in a row, our hosts — this time Nilay, David, and The Verge's Jake Kastrenakes — have to build a roster of streaming options that will win awards, show 4K content, satisfy their live TV needs, and much more. First, the hosts decide who won last year's competition, and then they pick their favorites for 2025. Make sure you listen to the episode before you read this, but here are the results of the draft: Jake's picks: Cheap: Tubi Awards: Netflix 4K: Hulu Live: Instagram Live Niche: PBS Passport Content: LoFi Girl Wild Card: Kanopy Nilay's picks: Cheap: TikTok Awards: Max 4K: Disney Plus Live: Sunday Ticket Niche: Kaleidescape Content: CNBC Wild Card: F1 TV David's picks Cheap: Peacock Awards: Amazon Prime 4K: YouTube Premium Live: YouTube TV Niche: BritBox Content: Stranger Things season 5 Wild Card: Paramount Plus We want to know who you think won the draft! Email us at vergecast@theverge.com, or call The Vergecast Hotline at 866-VERGE11, and tell us all your thoughts. And if you want to catch up, you can check out our draft from 2024 and from 2023. A lot has changed, and nothing has. The Vergecast was nominated for a Webby, which means we can win a Webby People’s Voice Award and that’s voted online by you! So we’d love your support. You can vote at the link:https://bit.ly/3DXFgpN Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to tech in 2025, where everything's made up and the numbers don't matter. Nilay, David, and The Verge's Jake Kastrenakes start the show by running down the latest tariff news, the uncertain future facing tech companies of all sizes, and what we're learning so far about how they're responding. After that, the hosts talk about a big week in AI news, including Meta's sketchy benchmark numbers and the latest damning reporting about the future of Siri. Finally, in the lightning round, it's time for America's favorite podcast within a podcast, Brendan Carr is a Dummy, along with some news about the TikTok ban and the Pixel 9A. And then some more tariff numbers, because they just never stop. Further reading: The Vergecast was nominated for a Webby, which means we can win a Webby People’s Voice Award and that’s voted online by you! So we’d love your support. You can vote at the link:https://bit.ly/3DXFgpN Sony adds three new speakers to bass-boosted ULT Power Sound lineup Sony seemingly bakes tariff penalty into its new US TV pricing Samsung’s The Frame Pro was never going to be cheap — and it isn’t Trump’s tariffs are officially in effect, including 104 percent on China China retaliates with additional 50 percent tariff on US goods Trump announces a ‘90-day pause’ on tariffs outside of China Trump believes iPhones can be made in the US, says White House Get your screwdrivers ready. Apple quickly shipped 600 tons of iPhones to ‘beat’ the new tariffs Trump triples tariffs on low value packages from China and Hong Kong Some Shein and Temu ‘haul video’ creators are stocking up Shein’s supply chain uncertainties. Amazon is already changing its ultra-cheap Temu copycat Framework stops selling some of its cheapest laptops due to Trump tariffs Framework delays Laptop 12 orders in the US over tariffs  Framework will open US preorders for Laptop 12 after all: tomorrow, starting at $549. Framework raised prices and then un-raised them an hour later because of Trump Price hikes, idled factories, layoffs: how car companies are responding to Trump’s tariffs China will show fewer US films in response to tariffs Trump’s new tariffs leave small creators scrambling Arduboy creator says his tiny Game Boy won’t survive Trump’s tariff Trump’s latest tariffs may set the smart home industry back Nintendo boss on Switch 2 and tariffs: ‘we are actively assessing what the impact may be’ Trump’s tariffs ‘pause’ could help Nintendo ship more Switch 2s Musk calls Trump’s trade chief ‘dumber than a sack of bricks.’ We just declared a trade war with the world Meta gets caught gaming AI benchmarks with Llama 4 Siri in The Information Amazon plays catch-up with new Nova AI models to generate voices and video Shopify CEO says no new hires without proof AI can’t do the job  Most Americans don’t trust AI — or the people in charge of it Adobe is building AI agents for Photoshop and Premiere Pro Samsung is finally releasing Ballie, its rolling home robot Sam Altman and Jony Ive’s AI project could involve a screenless device. Trump Is Now Mandating His Cabinet/Loyalist Wear "Trump Golden Bust" Pins From Ars Technica: The speech police: Chairman Brendan Carr and the FCC’s news distortion policy From Variety: FCC Commissioner Anna Gomez Sounds Alarm Over Trump Administration’s ‘Absolute Pattern of Censorship and Control’ From the FCC: Spectrum Is Back—Again! FCC eyes major satellite rule revamp in spectrum-sharing shakeup Trump delays TikTok ban again Trump’s TikTok delay is ‘against the law’ top Senate Intelligence Democrat says The US told Apple to keep TikTok in the App Store. Instagram might finally release an iPad app Google Pixel 9A review: a midrange phone done right Pixel 9A hits stores, and it’s still $499. Email us at vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Last week, The Verge's Ash Parrish got to play with the new Nintendo Switch 2. We got over our outrageous jealousy long enough to ask her all about it: what it's like to hold, how the screen looks, whether the mouse-control is any good, and much more. Ash gives us the good news, and the bad news, on everything we now know about the Switch 2. (We do talk about the price, but we recorded before the Trump administration launched its massive new tariff push — so you can consider the price even worse news than we thought.) After that, The Verge's Tom Warren joins the show to talk about Microsoft's 50th anniversary celebration, how the company has stayed so resilient for so long, and whether AI is really the next five-decade project for one of the world's biggest companies. Finally, we answer a question on the Vergecast Hotline (866-VERGE11, or email vergecast@theverge.com!) about how you should change your shopping habits in a tariff-filled world. It's hard to know where we'll be in a few months, but it sure doesn't look like gadgets are getting any cheaper. Further reading: The Vergecast was nominated for a Webby, which means we can win a Webby People’s Voice Award and that’s voted online by you! So we’d love your support. You can vote at the link:https://bit.ly/3DXFgpN Nintendo Switch 2 hands-on: it’s all in the games All of the Nintendo Switch 2 news, hands-ons, and trailers Donkey Kong Bananza was best in show at the Switch 2 hands-on I’m not sold on the Switch 2’s mouse-like controls Microsoft turns 50 Why I’ve covered Microsoft for 25 years How Microsoft made it through 50 years Trump’s tariffs mean you’ll pay more for all gadgets Trump’s tariffs put the iPhone in a tough spot From The Wall Street Journal: Here’s the iPhone. Here’s the iPhone With Tariffs. New Star GP, the game The General Magic documentary Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's a Nintendo Switch 2. What could it cost, a thousand dollars? In this episode, Nilay, David, and The Verge's Richard Lawler talk through why we don't really know. But first, we talk about the Switch 2, and some of the reasons we're excited — and maybe just a little concerned — about Nintendo's new console. This is likely to be the most interesting device of the year, and we learned an awful lot more about it this week. We also talk about Microsoft's 50th anniversary, the fate of TikTok, and other gadget news. Then we get to tariffs, with the help of Tuneshine creator Tobias Butler, who explains how tariffs affect the way hardware companies do business — and how they're navigating the current uncertainty. After that, in the lightning round, it's time for a little Brendan Carr is a Dummy, followed by the latest on Tesla's sales numbers, Alexa Plus, and Coyote vs. Acme. Further reading:  The Vergecast was nominated for a Webby, which means we can win a Webby People’s Voice Award and that’s voted online by you! So we’d love your support. You can vote at the link:https://bit.ly/3DXFgpN The 50 best things Microsoft has ever made The Nintendo Switch 2 arrives on June 5th for $449.99 Nintendo Switch 2 hands-on: it’s all in the games Nvidia confirms the Nintendo Switch 2 has DLSS and real-time ray tracing Nintendo Switch 2 specs: 1080p 120Hz display, 4K dock, mouse mode, and more The Nintendo Switch 2 has a camera accessory for video chat Nintendo’s Switch 2 ‘C’ button is a Discord-like GameChat feature  Verge staffers react to the Nintendo Switch 2 Here’s everything Nintendo has revealed about the Switch 2’s Joy-Cons Nintendo’s Switch 2 preorder process has strict requirements to thwart scalpers ‘TikTok America,’ Amazon, and other rumors about who might buy TikTok From The New York Times: Trump Set to Meet With Top Aides to Decide TikTok’s Fate From Wired: The Founder of OnlyFans Wants to Buy TikTok Tuneshine – Your space, your music Donald Trump announces tariffs that could raise the price of almost everything you buy Reciprocal Tariff Calculations | United States Trade Representative Trump’s new tariff math looks a lot like ChatGPT’s These are the tariffs about to hit Apple. Chris Murphy’s Bluesky thread Trump’s tariffs are ‘a debacle of epic proportions’ for the auto industry T-Mobile closes Lumos deal after dropping DEI | The Verge E&C Democrats Launch Investigation into FCC Chairman Carr’s Repeated Attacks on the First Amendment Sony’s new Bravia lineup includes its ‘King of TV’ successor Tesla’s sales plummet 13 percent as Musk backlash grows Best printer 2025: just buy a Brother laser printer, the winner is clear, middle finger in the air Alexa Plus just launched in early access, but it’s missing some features Coyote vs. Acme is finally coming to theaters Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David has a Light Phone III, and it's making him wonder a lot of things about technology. So The Verge's Allison Johnson joins the show to talk about the whole trend of minimalist smartphones, and to figure out which features a smartphone absolutely needs, and which ones we could all probably do without. After that, The Verge's Andy Hawkins takes us through a big weekend in the Tesla Takedown movement, what's happening with Elon Musk's car company, how automakers are responding to impending tariffs, and whether we're wrong to be excited about the new Nissan Leaf. Finally, The Verge's Jen Tuohy answers a question from the Vergecast Hotline (call 866-VERGE11, or email vergecast@theverge.com!) about all-seeing cameras in our homes. Which mostly don't exist yet. Mostly. Further reading: Light Phone III review: everything in moderation There’s no perfect minimalist phone — yet One year with the Light Phone 2 We went to 10 anti-Tesla protests — and a couple counter protests, too ‘Tesla Takedown’ protesters planning ‘biggest day of action’ How Elon Musk turned the Tesla brand so toxic The Nissan Leaf lives on as a compact SUV with a Tesla charge port Ring’s latest security camera is a drone that flies around inside your house Project Astra is the future of AI at Google Alexa Plus arrives with promise but plenty of questions Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices